Post by rockinronnie on Feb 28, 2014 20:44:29 GMT
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Daniel Tapscott
Member
Member # 1437 posted 03 September, 2008 14:0503. September 2008 14:05
RE: the song 'Didn't Have to Lie'
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Has anyone got this?
I've seen it listed on the mastertape pressings photographed in various books.
Cheers, Dan
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Laughing on your own can be no fun!
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Daniel Tapscott
Member
Member # 1437 posted 03 September, 2008 23:2603. September 2008 23:26
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Sorry, that's 'Didn't Have to Lie'. The only other things I know about it are that it is listed as 3.57 mins long in some cases and 3.59 in others and was on the same reel to reel as Come Rock With Me, High Flyer, Your Smiling Face, Living on an Island and Shady Lady.
Cheers, Dan
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Laughing on your own can be no fun!
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allyp
4500 Timer
Member # 5316 posted 03 September, 2008 23:4103. September 2008 23:41
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Sorry to dissapoint but it was a working title for YOUR SMILING FACE so is not an unreleased track it may exist in demo form but I have never heard that version if it exists...
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Lets make bono history
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Daniel Tapscott
Member
Member # 1437 posted 04 September, 2008 09:2904. September 2008 09:29
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If that was the case, then it does not make sense why it would be listed on a master reel to reel. Especially given that Your Smiling Face is on the same tape!
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Laughing on your own can be no fun!
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allyp
4500 Timer
Member # 5316 posted 04 September, 2008 11:3504. September 2008 11:35
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As I said..No track called DON'T HAVE TO LIE exists it is a working title for another song rather like PIECE OF MIND was for YOU LOST THE LOVE..I'm sure we would have had it on various BOOTLEG and DEMO releases if that was the case...
FROM A 2005 INTERVIEW WITH BOB YOUNG:
1.: Talking about the recording sessions for the QUO albums in the past. Obviously there were more songs recorded than were finally issued on the albums would you agree and will they ever be released? And can you tell us more about the song "Didn't have to lie" from the Whatever You Want-sessions? (Dave Oxley mentioned in his book "Rockers Rollin")
Bob Young: Generally speaking there were not too many additional songs recorded when making the albums. Of course there were different takes of each song which will have never been heard before. I'm sure that any 'extra' songs recorded will eventually be released in some form or another but more so as a general interest in unheard Quo material (if they can be found...) I have no recollection of the song 'Didn't Have To Lie'. I'll have to ask Francis to remind me about that one...
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Lets make bono history
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Wark is God
4500 Timer
Member # 1089 posted 04 September, 2008 12:4104. September 2008 12:41
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quote:
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Originally posted by allyp:
Sorry to dissapoint but it was a working title for YOUR SMILING FACE so is not an unreleased track it may exist in demo form but I have never heard that version if it exists...
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Wasn't it for Who Asked You?
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Pictures Of Matchstick Men : The ingredients here are an ear-catching vocal blend, a wowing organ, strange oscillations, an underlying throbbing beat and an intriguing lyric.
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allyp
4500 Timer
Member # 5316 posted 04 September, 2008 12:4204. September 2008 12:42
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quote:
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Originally posted by Wark is God:
quote:
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Originally posted by allyp:
Sorry to dissapoint but it was a working title for YOUR SMILING FACE so is not an unreleased track it may exist in demo form but I have never heard that version if it exists...
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Wasn't it for Who Asked You?
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Yes you are right..
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Lets make bono history
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Daniel Tapscott
Member
Member # 1437 posted 04 September, 2008 14:0904. September 2008 14:09
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Now i'm even more confused - the lyrics 'I would not lie' are mentioned time and time again in Your Smiling Face but there's nothing of the sort in Who Asked You!
Perhaps the owner of the reel-to-reel can tell us?!
Cheers, Dan
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Laughing on your own can be no fun!
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Precious Pup
Member
Member # 14582 posted 04 September, 2008 17:3004. September 2008 17:30
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Hey Daniel been trying to connect the brain cells back 30 years to our time in Holland to help answer your question. "Didn't Have To Lie" was a working title and pretty sure it ended up as "Your Smiling Face" but I maybe wrong. If you can point me to where you saw this it may help jog my memory (Pip or Francis may also have an answer).
I no longer have the track sheets that would trace title history however they do exist in some 2" muti-track boxes somewhere. There were no tracks left over from these sessions in Holland and as Bob Y. has said every song had many outtakes. I kept the machine running pretty much all the time and we ended up with in excess of 70 rolls of 2" tape from these sessions. Sometime's a "master take" was constructed from several takes of the song, a verse from one take edited to the chorus of another etc. and spliced together.
All the final 2" masters were extracted and compiled onto separate reels from the outtakes. Before we returned to England I made 2" safety copies of the original masters. These were packed in flight cases (thank you Hot Dog) and together with dozens of reels of outtakes taken by road with the rest of the bands gear back to England. The idea being that we would always have a backup in case anything happened to the masters!
I carried all the masters with me when we flew back to England and got in a spot of trouble with customs at Heathrow who were trying to make a case that VAT should be paid on the entire cost of the recording sessions we did in Holland! The tapes were confiscated for a while but later released after the lawyers got involved.
I've seen pictures in some of the books showing Phonogram Studios in London listing the titles from this album. None of the tracks were recorded there. These boxes are from production copy masters that Phonogram made up from the original ¼" production masters to ship to various overseas countries who in turn used these tapes for the vinyl mastering process.
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allyp
4500 Timer
Member # 5316 posted 04 September, 2008 17:3704. September 2008 17:37
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Thanks for clearing that one up
JOHN it is good to have your knowledge here about these things as the band themselves have either forgotten about these kind of things or never get asked questions about the music in interviews which really irks me..
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Lets make bono history
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JOHNNYG
Member
Member # 2528 posted 05 September, 2008 13:4805. September 2008 13:48
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This is excellent stuff, I love this board!
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www.statusduo.co.uk
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Daniel Tapscott
Member
Member # 1437 posted 05 September, 2008 15:2405. September 2008 15:24
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Many thanks for this John - I am facinated in this stuff. The picture of the master I am refering to came from David Oxley's 'Tuned to the Music of Status Quo' book and the other info I picked up in his 'Rockers Rollin' book.
Whilst writing, thanks for all your work with Quo, it would be great if you had a hand in another album with them!
And if you should ever require someone to pour through hours and hours and hours of Quo out takes, I'm your man!
Cheers, Dan
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Laughing on your own can be no fun!
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MATT
Member
Member # 111 posted 06 September, 2008 10:3906. September 2008 10:39
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could I ask what Precious Pup aka john's role is in the quo history. Is he John Eden?
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per-ola
Member
Member # 11423 posted 06 September, 2008 10:5606. September 2008 10:56
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quote:
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Originally posted by MATT:
could I ask what Precious Pup aka john's role is in the quo history. Is he John Eden?
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Yes he is
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"Maybe it´s time for a new signature?"
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Piles Driver
Member
Member # 9603 posted 06 September, 2008 11:4006. September 2008 11:40
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wow
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www.staidasquo.co.uk
\m/(*_*)\m/
www.statedquo.co.uk
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MATT
Member
Member # 111 posted 06 September, 2008 16:1506. September 2008 16:15
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cool - ive just had a look through Johns recent posts - and it appears i missed the whole NTL discussion which is a shame as its my fave album - but fascinating anyway.
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heavy_quo
Member
Member # 10020 posted 06 September, 2008 21:1306. September 2008 21:13
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thanks john for a fantastic read
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www.freewebs.com/4500times
messenger
statusquofan86@hotmail.co.uk
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Per
Member
Member # 2328 posted 06 September, 2008 22:4306. September 2008 22:43
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Hi Mr Eden. Thanks for splendid reading!
I have another, maybe somewhat "nerdy" question about the WYW recordings, which you might help me with. I have always found the snare-drum sound on Breaking Away quite different from the sound on the rest of the songs. In my ears it seems more dry and hi-pitched than on the other songs.
Was JC experimenting with different drums for different songs during the WYW-sessions, or was maybe the drums for this song recorded somewhere else? Or is it a result of different mixing?
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Precious Pup
Member
Member # 14582 posted 07 September, 2008 07:5407. September 2008 07:54
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We did all the tracks at Studio 2 Wissleloord Hilversum, so this was a constant as far as the tracking studio was concerned. The studio had a drum booth and live iso room and we did use each area. We may have done this track in the drum booth which gave a much tighter sound.
John had a selection of snares including I think a 6 1/2 " Black Beauty and other smaller 5" snares. We would try different set up's depending on what Pip was hearing for the song. For recording I always preferred John use a remo ambassador coated head (white with a rough surface) on the snare. They produce very crisp dynamics; the only problem is that when J.C. was on form they didn't last long.
John is a heavy player and depending on the song we could go through many heads. Replacing and retuning heads, putting back any dampening we'd used took time and sometime's we lost the moment, this was frustrating for him as well as the rest of the band - but it was just part of the process at the time.
The snare would not always keep tension and so the sound could change through an otherwise perfect take. If this became a problem at mixing I would sometimes take a parallel feed from the original snare send it to an external eq. roll off the low end and then put it through a noise gate and produce a click. This click would then be used to trigger a sample (which gave a consistent sound) in the new wonderful toy (in 79) we had named the AMS 1580. This unit was a digital delay pitch shifter and the very early form of a sampler. Blending the output of this snare sample with the original in varying degrees usually worked pretty well and could create a more tighter dryer sound on the snare.
That's the best possible explanation from what you describe I have. In addition there may be other mixes out there that have been done I'm just referring to the original album mix.
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Per
Member
Member # 2328 posted 07 September, 2008 12:3707. September 2008 12:37
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Many many thanks for this fabulous info Mr Eden! This is so fantastic to get to know serious facts about their studio-sessions, actually exactly the kind of info I´ve always felt been missing in all the books about Quo. You should write one about all your memories from working with them!
Once again many many thanks!
P.S. Though I´ve always known that JC was an extreme "power-house", the fact that he actually went through the coated Remo Ambassadors during just one song really makes me realise HOW hard he was hitting ! I´m a drummer too, and thought I was quite hard-hitting too, but such a snare-head often lasts a year for me
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Make it Quo, Number One...
Member
Member # 4889 posted 07 September, 2008 16:0407. September 2008 16:04
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It's fascinating to read this stuff. Thank you for taking the time to post.
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Don't DO that...it 'urts!
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Precious Pup
Member
Member # 14582 posted 07 September, 2008 17:2507. September 2008 17:25
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quote:
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Originally posted by Per:
Many many thanks for this fabulous info Mr Eden! This is so fantastic to get to know serious facts about their studio-sessions, actually exactly the kind of info I´ve always felt been missing in all the books about Quo. You should write one about all your memories from working with them!
Once again many many thanks!
P.S. Though I´ve always known that JC was an extreme "power-house", the fact that he actually went through the coated Remo Ambassadors during just one song really makes me realise HOW hard he was hitting! I´m a drummer too, and thought I was quite hard-hitting too, but such a snare-head often lasts a year for me
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Precious Pup
Member
Member # 14582 posted 07 September, 2008 17:3707. September 2008 17:37
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Hi Per:
I just want to clarify that when I say "we went through many heads" I mean that the heads lost there response/tonality to the point they needed changing and not that the head split. Being a drummer I'm sure you understand my point.
We went through many string changes also for tonality reasons!
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Per
Member
Member # 2328 posted 07 September, 2008 21:5607. September 2008 21:56
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quote:
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Originally posted by Precious Pup:
Hi Per:
I just want to clarify that when I say "we went through many heads" I mean that the heads lost there response/tonality to the point they needed changing and not that the head split. Being a drummer I'm sure you understand my point.
We went through many string changes also for tonality reasons!
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Ok, that makes sense . Thanks for this clarifying. Yes I do know what you mean, a drumkit with old heads sounds totally dead, no matter the brand or quality of the actual drum. Especially the tone and response of the snare - the heart of the kit - has to be clear, crisp and lively if the not the entire kit will end up sounding "flat, damped and dull" so to say.
Talking about JC´s drums another question comes to my mind: I remember him doing commercials for both Zildjan and Paiste cymbals. Did he use both brands in the studio, and change combinations of cymbal-brands and sizes depending on what song to be recorded? Or was there pure "Paiste-albums" and "Zildjan-albums" recorded so to say?
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I Ain't Complainin'
Member
Member # 2967 posted 08 September, 2008 14:4808. September 2008 14:48
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quote:
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Originally posted by Precious Pup:
They produce very crisp dynamics; the only problem is that when J.C. was on form they didn't last long.
John is a heavy player and depending on the song we could go through many heads. Replacing and retuning heads, putting back any dampening we'd used took time and sometime's we lost the moment, this was frustrating for him as well as the rest of the band - but it was just part of the process at the time. The snare would not always keep tension and so the sound could change through an otherwise perfect take.
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Hence Andy Bown's comment on a fairly recent interview (the one and Only or something like that) where he says 'you can spend 8 hours trying to get the right snare drum sound' then rolls his eyes!
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I can't wait for the whistle to blow....(I wanna go home and listen to some Quo)!
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Ant
Member
Member # 314 posted 08 September, 2008 16:5608. September 2008 16:56
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This is fantastic stuff. I wonder whether there ought to be another forum for this type of information from informed Quo associates where maybe an informal rule could be applied regarding no abuse of the contributor.
Having said that, it should be recognised that those who drove Pip off the board have resisted doing the same to John, so thanks for that folks. (sincerely)
John - wonderful information, thank you. NTL is one of my favourite Quo albums.
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Ant
www.doublepositive.co.uk - download tracks and buy the Double Positive album, 2x+ve
myweb.tiscali.co.uk/motorant/
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allyp
4500 Timer
Member # 5316 posted 18 September, 2008 19:4118. September 2008 19:41
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Sorry to repeat this post folks but it has dissapeared down page 2 somewhere and pip may not see it so..
Hi pip if you read this welcome back my friend hopefully Mr Eden being treated with respect has convinced you
BLONDE'S DON'T LIE and ROCK N ROLL FLOORBOARDS- Two tracks which never made it onto record what is the story behind them did you co-write them and why were they left off the albums?..BLONDE'S DON'T LIE especially is a great track and never made PERFECT REMEDY and was alot better than some of the material on that album..
RICK'S RECORDED DELIVERY- Are the versions hanging around via bootlegs the finished versions or would you have cleaned things up before the album had been put out? Also who is the female singer on these recordings doing backing vocals?
Thanks for listening
cheers ally
If anyone wants to add anything constructive to this post then do so but no silly posts please..
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"There is no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes"
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RADIO QUO
Member
Member # 11898 posted 18 September, 2008 22:2718. September 2008 22:27
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Good post Ally P...
I wonder if Pip, due to time constraints, will be going through each album in detail one after the other....in date order ?
Will be interesting to hear more about Perfect Remedy as he is critical himself about it. Personally think there are a handful of underrated tracks on the album, but lacking punch in the guitars. Though putting the CD through a decent Player with good tone controls and EQ seems to help in that respect !!
Would certainly be interested to know, like RAOTW, if he and the Band were initially happy with the PR sessions and at what point they felt less than satisfied..eg) was it when it charted poorly by Quo's standards ? (though RAOTW huge sales of course) ....or sooner or much later than that?
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Filip
Member
Member # 976 posted 18 September, 2008 23:3818. September 2008 23:38
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About Blondes Don't Lie I think it was recorded too late, not on the PR sessions at the time. That's the reason IMO. It was forgotten unfortunately even for the next RTYD album.
Rock 'N' Roll Floorboards as I remember should be a b-side for unreleased "Naughty Girl" in 1985. On "Dreamin" single, later on 1986, there's 2 live tracks instead.
I don't know
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allyp
4500 Timer
Member # 5316 posted 20 September, 2008 00:0620. September 2008 00:06
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Hopefully he will see this thread
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"There is no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes"
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Pip The Prod
New Member
Member # 16211 posted 20 September, 2008 16:1420. September 2008 16:14
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Hi Ally,
I believe Blondes Don't Lie was one of a whole batch of songs written by Rick and myself in my home studio around '88/'89.
It was probably not considered good enough at the time for the PR album, but as you observe, some might consider it a darn sight better than some of the material that did make it!
To be honest, I don't remember anything about Rock 'n' Roll Floorboards!!
Unfortunately, all I have to hand is an old cassette of the Recorded Delivery album.
I may well have a copy master tucked away in storage somewhere.
I can't be sure where the bootlegs emanated from Ally. Copies get sent out to various territories and it's hard to keep track of them. These then get copied and before you know it, the copies get copied and are three or more generations circulating.
Certainly, the final mixes I delivered were as close to finished as damn it- ready for Rick and I to live with them and make final decisions.
After that, when the issue of Quo doing another album came along, the album was shelved, probably to focus all attention on any subsequent Quo release.
It was a bit of a shame that so many tracks were lifted for B-sides etc. Nice from a songwriter's financial point of view, but this effectively put paid to any chance of it being released as an album intact.
As to the girl backing vocals, there were three. One was definitely the late, brilliant and lovely Vicki Brown (wife of rock and roll guitar legend Joe Brown, and mother of Sam Brown- she who had a hit with Stop and who now works with Jools Holland's band, I think). Also, there was Stevie Lange- amazing singer (remember the Bodyform ad) and now very respected as a vocal coach- particularly of the manufactured boy and girl reality TV groups. I'm pretty certain the 3rd lady was Katie Kissoon. With her brother Mac, they had hits in the 70's.
Was there any particular track that stands out for you, as far as the girl singers are concerned?
Radio Quo- I think I'll talk about PR in more detail as and when. There are a few things worth mentioning about that album!
More when I get time guys.
All best- Pip
Daniel Tapscott
Member
Member # 1437 posted 03 September, 2008 14:0503. September 2008 14:05
RE: the song 'Didn't Have to Lie'
________________________________________
Has anyone got this?
I've seen it listed on the mastertape pressings photographed in various books.
Cheers, Dan
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Laughing on your own can be no fun!
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Registered: Jul 2001 | IP: Logged |
Daniel Tapscott
Member
Member # 1437 posted 03 September, 2008 23:2603. September 2008 23:26
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Sorry, that's 'Didn't Have to Lie'. The only other things I know about it are that it is listed as 3.57 mins long in some cases and 3.59 in others and was on the same reel to reel as Come Rock With Me, High Flyer, Your Smiling Face, Living on an Island and Shady Lady.
Cheers, Dan
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Laughing on your own can be no fun!
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allyp
4500 Timer
Member # 5316 posted 03 September, 2008 23:4103. September 2008 23:41
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Sorry to dissapoint but it was a working title for YOUR SMILING FACE so is not an unreleased track it may exist in demo form but I have never heard that version if it exists...
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Lets make bono history
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Daniel Tapscott
Member
Member # 1437 posted 04 September, 2008 09:2904. September 2008 09:29
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If that was the case, then it does not make sense why it would be listed on a master reel to reel. Especially given that Your Smiling Face is on the same tape!
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Laughing on your own can be no fun!
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allyp
4500 Timer
Member # 5316 posted 04 September, 2008 11:3504. September 2008 11:35
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As I said..No track called DON'T HAVE TO LIE exists it is a working title for another song rather like PIECE OF MIND was for YOU LOST THE LOVE..I'm sure we would have had it on various BOOTLEG and DEMO releases if that was the case...
FROM A 2005 INTERVIEW WITH BOB YOUNG:
1.: Talking about the recording sessions for the QUO albums in the past. Obviously there were more songs recorded than were finally issued on the albums would you agree and will they ever be released? And can you tell us more about the song "Didn't have to lie" from the Whatever You Want-sessions? (Dave Oxley mentioned in his book "Rockers Rollin")
Bob Young: Generally speaking there were not too many additional songs recorded when making the albums. Of course there were different takes of each song which will have never been heard before. I'm sure that any 'extra' songs recorded will eventually be released in some form or another but more so as a general interest in unheard Quo material (if they can be found...) I have no recollection of the song 'Didn't Have To Lie'. I'll have to ask Francis to remind me about that one...
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Lets make bono history
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Wark is God
4500 Timer
Member # 1089 posted 04 September, 2008 12:4104. September 2008 12:41
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quote:
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Originally posted by allyp:
Sorry to dissapoint but it was a working title for YOUR SMILING FACE so is not an unreleased track it may exist in demo form but I have never heard that version if it exists...
________________________________________
Wasn't it for Who Asked You?
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Pictures Of Matchstick Men : The ingredients here are an ear-catching vocal blend, a wowing organ, strange oscillations, an underlying throbbing beat and an intriguing lyric.
________________________________________
Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged |
allyp
4500 Timer
Member # 5316 posted 04 September, 2008 12:4204. September 2008 12:42
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quote:
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Originally posted by Wark is God:
quote:
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Originally posted by allyp:
Sorry to dissapoint but it was a working title for YOUR SMILING FACE so is not an unreleased track it may exist in demo form but I have never heard that version if it exists...
________________________________________
Wasn't it for Who Asked You?
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Yes you are right..
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Lets make bono history
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Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |
Daniel Tapscott
Member
Member # 1437 posted 04 September, 2008 14:0904. September 2008 14:09
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Now i'm even more confused - the lyrics 'I would not lie' are mentioned time and time again in Your Smiling Face but there's nothing of the sort in Who Asked You!
Perhaps the owner of the reel-to-reel can tell us?!
Cheers, Dan
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Laughing on your own can be no fun!
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Precious Pup
Member
Member # 14582 posted 04 September, 2008 17:3004. September 2008 17:30
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Hey Daniel been trying to connect the brain cells back 30 years to our time in Holland to help answer your question. "Didn't Have To Lie" was a working title and pretty sure it ended up as "Your Smiling Face" but I maybe wrong. If you can point me to where you saw this it may help jog my memory (Pip or Francis may also have an answer).
I no longer have the track sheets that would trace title history however they do exist in some 2" muti-track boxes somewhere. There were no tracks left over from these sessions in Holland and as Bob Y. has said every song had many outtakes. I kept the machine running pretty much all the time and we ended up with in excess of 70 rolls of 2" tape from these sessions. Sometime's a "master take" was constructed from several takes of the song, a verse from one take edited to the chorus of another etc. and spliced together.
All the final 2" masters were extracted and compiled onto separate reels from the outtakes. Before we returned to England I made 2" safety copies of the original masters. These were packed in flight cases (thank you Hot Dog) and together with dozens of reels of outtakes taken by road with the rest of the bands gear back to England. The idea being that we would always have a backup in case anything happened to the masters!
I carried all the masters with me when we flew back to England and got in a spot of trouble with customs at Heathrow who were trying to make a case that VAT should be paid on the entire cost of the recording sessions we did in Holland! The tapes were confiscated for a while but later released after the lawyers got involved.
I've seen pictures in some of the books showing Phonogram Studios in London listing the titles from this album. None of the tracks were recorded there. These boxes are from production copy masters that Phonogram made up from the original ¼" production masters to ship to various overseas countries who in turn used these tapes for the vinyl mastering process.
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allyp
4500 Timer
Member # 5316 posted 04 September, 2008 17:3704. September 2008 17:37
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Thanks for clearing that one up
JOHN it is good to have your knowledge here about these things as the band themselves have either forgotten about these kind of things or never get asked questions about the music in interviews which really irks me..
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Lets make bono history
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JOHNNYG
Member
Member # 2528 posted 05 September, 2008 13:4805. September 2008 13:48
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This is excellent stuff, I love this board!
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www.statusduo.co.uk
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Daniel Tapscott
Member
Member # 1437 posted 05 September, 2008 15:2405. September 2008 15:24
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Many thanks for this John - I am facinated in this stuff. The picture of the master I am refering to came from David Oxley's 'Tuned to the Music of Status Quo' book and the other info I picked up in his 'Rockers Rollin' book.
Whilst writing, thanks for all your work with Quo, it would be great if you had a hand in another album with them!
And if you should ever require someone to pour through hours and hours and hours of Quo out takes, I'm your man!
Cheers, Dan
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Laughing on your own can be no fun!
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MATT
Member
Member # 111 posted 06 September, 2008 10:3906. September 2008 10:39
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could I ask what Precious Pup aka john's role is in the quo history. Is he John Eden?
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per-ola
Member
Member # 11423 posted 06 September, 2008 10:5606. September 2008 10:56
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quote:
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Originally posted by MATT:
could I ask what Precious Pup aka john's role is in the quo history. Is he John Eden?
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Yes he is
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"Maybe it´s time for a new signature?"
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Piles Driver
Member
Member # 9603 posted 06 September, 2008 11:4006. September 2008 11:40
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wow
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www.staidasquo.co.uk
\m/(*_*)\m/
www.statedquo.co.uk
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MATT
Member
Member # 111 posted 06 September, 2008 16:1506. September 2008 16:15
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cool - ive just had a look through Johns recent posts - and it appears i missed the whole NTL discussion which is a shame as its my fave album - but fascinating anyway.
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heavy_quo
Member
Member # 10020 posted 06 September, 2008 21:1306. September 2008 21:13
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thanks john for a fantastic read
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messenger
statusquofan86@hotmail.co.uk
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Per
Member
Member # 2328 posted 06 September, 2008 22:4306. September 2008 22:43
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Hi Mr Eden. Thanks for splendid reading!
I have another, maybe somewhat "nerdy" question about the WYW recordings, which you might help me with. I have always found the snare-drum sound on Breaking Away quite different from the sound on the rest of the songs. In my ears it seems more dry and hi-pitched than on the other songs.
Was JC experimenting with different drums for different songs during the WYW-sessions, or was maybe the drums for this song recorded somewhere else? Or is it a result of different mixing?
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Precious Pup
Member
Member # 14582 posted 07 September, 2008 07:5407. September 2008 07:54
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We did all the tracks at Studio 2 Wissleloord Hilversum, so this was a constant as far as the tracking studio was concerned. The studio had a drum booth and live iso room and we did use each area. We may have done this track in the drum booth which gave a much tighter sound.
John had a selection of snares including I think a 6 1/2 " Black Beauty and other smaller 5" snares. We would try different set up's depending on what Pip was hearing for the song. For recording I always preferred John use a remo ambassador coated head (white with a rough surface) on the snare. They produce very crisp dynamics; the only problem is that when J.C. was on form they didn't last long.
John is a heavy player and depending on the song we could go through many heads. Replacing and retuning heads, putting back any dampening we'd used took time and sometime's we lost the moment, this was frustrating for him as well as the rest of the band - but it was just part of the process at the time.
The snare would not always keep tension and so the sound could change through an otherwise perfect take. If this became a problem at mixing I would sometimes take a parallel feed from the original snare send it to an external eq. roll off the low end and then put it through a noise gate and produce a click. This click would then be used to trigger a sample (which gave a consistent sound) in the new wonderful toy (in 79) we had named the AMS 1580. This unit was a digital delay pitch shifter and the very early form of a sampler. Blending the output of this snare sample with the original in varying degrees usually worked pretty well and could create a more tighter dryer sound on the snare.
That's the best possible explanation from what you describe I have. In addition there may be other mixes out there that have been done I'm just referring to the original album mix.
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Per
Member
Member # 2328 posted 07 September, 2008 12:3707. September 2008 12:37
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Many many thanks for this fabulous info Mr Eden! This is so fantastic to get to know serious facts about their studio-sessions, actually exactly the kind of info I´ve always felt been missing in all the books about Quo. You should write one about all your memories from working with them!
Once again many many thanks!
P.S. Though I´ve always known that JC was an extreme "power-house", the fact that he actually went through the coated Remo Ambassadors during just one song really makes me realise HOW hard he was hitting ! I´m a drummer too, and thought I was quite hard-hitting too, but such a snare-head often lasts a year for me
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Make it Quo, Number One...
Member
Member # 4889 posted 07 September, 2008 16:0407. September 2008 16:04
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It's fascinating to read this stuff. Thank you for taking the time to post.
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Don't DO that...it 'urts!
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Precious Pup
Member
Member # 14582 posted 07 September, 2008 17:2507. September 2008 17:25
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quote:
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Originally posted by Per:
Many many thanks for this fabulous info Mr Eden! This is so fantastic to get to know serious facts about their studio-sessions, actually exactly the kind of info I´ve always felt been missing in all the books about Quo. You should write one about all your memories from working with them!
Once again many many thanks!
P.S. Though I´ve always known that JC was an extreme "power-house", the fact that he actually went through the coated Remo Ambassadors during just one song really makes me realise HOW hard he was hitting! I´m a drummer too, and thought I was quite hard-hitting too, but such a snare-head often lasts a year for me
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Precious Pup
Member
Member # 14582 posted 07 September, 2008 17:3707. September 2008 17:37
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Hi Per:
I just want to clarify that when I say "we went through many heads" I mean that the heads lost there response/tonality to the point they needed changing and not that the head split. Being a drummer I'm sure you understand my point.
We went through many string changes also for tonality reasons!
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Per
Member
Member # 2328 posted 07 September, 2008 21:5607. September 2008 21:56
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quote:
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Originally posted by Precious Pup:
Hi Per:
I just want to clarify that when I say "we went through many heads" I mean that the heads lost there response/tonality to the point they needed changing and not that the head split. Being a drummer I'm sure you understand my point.
We went through many string changes also for tonality reasons!
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Ok, that makes sense . Thanks for this clarifying. Yes I do know what you mean, a drumkit with old heads sounds totally dead, no matter the brand or quality of the actual drum. Especially the tone and response of the snare - the heart of the kit - has to be clear, crisp and lively if the not the entire kit will end up sounding "flat, damped and dull" so to say.
Talking about JC´s drums another question comes to my mind: I remember him doing commercials for both Zildjan and Paiste cymbals. Did he use both brands in the studio, and change combinations of cymbal-brands and sizes depending on what song to be recorded? Or was there pure "Paiste-albums" and "Zildjan-albums" recorded so to say?
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I Ain't Complainin'
Member
Member # 2967 posted 08 September, 2008 14:4808. September 2008 14:48
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quote:
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Originally posted by Precious Pup:
They produce very crisp dynamics; the only problem is that when J.C. was on form they didn't last long.
John is a heavy player and depending on the song we could go through many heads. Replacing and retuning heads, putting back any dampening we'd used took time and sometime's we lost the moment, this was frustrating for him as well as the rest of the band - but it was just part of the process at the time. The snare would not always keep tension and so the sound could change through an otherwise perfect take.
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Hence Andy Bown's comment on a fairly recent interview (the one and Only or something like that) where he says 'you can spend 8 hours trying to get the right snare drum sound' then rolls his eyes!
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I can't wait for the whistle to blow....(I wanna go home and listen to some Quo)!
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Ant
Member
Member # 314 posted 08 September, 2008 16:5608. September 2008 16:56
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This is fantastic stuff. I wonder whether there ought to be another forum for this type of information from informed Quo associates where maybe an informal rule could be applied regarding no abuse of the contributor.
Having said that, it should be recognised that those who drove Pip off the board have resisted doing the same to John, so thanks for that folks. (sincerely)
John - wonderful information, thank you. NTL is one of my favourite Quo albums.
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Ant
www.doublepositive.co.uk - download tracks and buy the Double Positive album, 2x+ve
myweb.tiscali.co.uk/motorant/
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allyp
4500 Timer
Member # 5316 posted 18 September, 2008 19:4118. September 2008 19:41
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Sorry to repeat this post folks but it has dissapeared down page 2 somewhere and pip may not see it so..
Hi pip if you read this welcome back my friend hopefully Mr Eden being treated with respect has convinced you
BLONDE'S DON'T LIE and ROCK N ROLL FLOORBOARDS- Two tracks which never made it onto record what is the story behind them did you co-write them and why were they left off the albums?..BLONDE'S DON'T LIE especially is a great track and never made PERFECT REMEDY and was alot better than some of the material on that album..
RICK'S RECORDED DELIVERY- Are the versions hanging around via bootlegs the finished versions or would you have cleaned things up before the album had been put out? Also who is the female singer on these recordings doing backing vocals?
Thanks for listening
cheers ally
If anyone wants to add anything constructive to this post then do so but no silly posts please..
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"There is no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes"
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RADIO QUO
Member
Member # 11898 posted 18 September, 2008 22:2718. September 2008 22:27
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Good post Ally P...
I wonder if Pip, due to time constraints, will be going through each album in detail one after the other....in date order ?
Will be interesting to hear more about Perfect Remedy as he is critical himself about it. Personally think there are a handful of underrated tracks on the album, but lacking punch in the guitars. Though putting the CD through a decent Player with good tone controls and EQ seems to help in that respect !!
Would certainly be interested to know, like RAOTW, if he and the Band were initially happy with the PR sessions and at what point they felt less than satisfied..eg) was it when it charted poorly by Quo's standards ? (though RAOTW huge sales of course) ....or sooner or much later than that?
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Filip
Member
Member # 976 posted 18 September, 2008 23:3818. September 2008 23:38
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About Blondes Don't Lie I think it was recorded too late, not on the PR sessions at the time. That's the reason IMO. It was forgotten unfortunately even for the next RTYD album.
Rock 'N' Roll Floorboards as I remember should be a b-side for unreleased "Naughty Girl" in 1985. On "Dreamin" single, later on 1986, there's 2 live tracks instead.
I don't know
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allyp
4500 Timer
Member # 5316 posted 20 September, 2008 00:0620. September 2008 00:06
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Hopefully he will see this thread
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"There is no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes"
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Pip The Prod
New Member
Member # 16211 posted 20 September, 2008 16:1420. September 2008 16:14
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Hi Ally,
I believe Blondes Don't Lie was one of a whole batch of songs written by Rick and myself in my home studio around '88/'89.
It was probably not considered good enough at the time for the PR album, but as you observe, some might consider it a darn sight better than some of the material that did make it!
To be honest, I don't remember anything about Rock 'n' Roll Floorboards!!
Unfortunately, all I have to hand is an old cassette of the Recorded Delivery album.
I may well have a copy master tucked away in storage somewhere.
I can't be sure where the bootlegs emanated from Ally. Copies get sent out to various territories and it's hard to keep track of them. These then get copied and before you know it, the copies get copied and are three or more generations circulating.
Certainly, the final mixes I delivered were as close to finished as damn it- ready for Rick and I to live with them and make final decisions.
After that, when the issue of Quo doing another album came along, the album was shelved, probably to focus all attention on any subsequent Quo release.
It was a bit of a shame that so many tracks were lifted for B-sides etc. Nice from a songwriter's financial point of view, but this effectively put paid to any chance of it being released as an album intact.
As to the girl backing vocals, there were three. One was definitely the late, brilliant and lovely Vicki Brown (wife of rock and roll guitar legend Joe Brown, and mother of Sam Brown- she who had a hit with Stop and who now works with Jools Holland's band, I think). Also, there was Stevie Lange- amazing singer (remember the Bodyform ad) and now very respected as a vocal coach- particularly of the manufactured boy and girl reality TV groups. I'm pretty certain the 3rd lady was Katie Kissoon. With her brother Mac, they had hits in the 70's.
Was there any particular track that stands out for you, as far as the girl singers are concerned?
Radio Quo- I think I'll talk about PR in more detail as and when. There are a few things worth mentioning about that album!
More when I get time guys.
All best- Pip